Understanding the Timeline of Your Divorce Finalization | Los Angeles Divorce

Understanding the Timeline of Your Divorce Finalization

When you find yourself in the midst of a divorce, one of the most pressing questions you might have is, “When will my divorce be finalized?” Knowing the exact date can feel like a beacon of hope in a tumultuous time. Fortunately, there’s a straightforward method to calculate it. Let’s break it down step by step.

Key Steps to Determine Your Divorce Finalization Date

Understanding the timeline of your divorce can help you manage expectations and plan for the future. The process may vary depending on your specific circumstances, but the general principle remains the same. Here’s how you can calculate the exact date your divorce will be finalized.

Step 1: Identify the Date of Service

The first step in determining your divorce finalization date is to pinpoint the date your spouse was served with divorce papers. This date is crucial because it marks the beginning of the legal process. For instance, if your spouse was served on October 19, 2022, that date will play a significant role in your calculations.

Step 2: Calculate Six Months

Once you have the date of service, the next step is to add six months to that date. You can do this manually, or even ask your digital assistant for help. For example, if you ask Siri, “What’s six months from October 19, 2022?” she will tell you that it’s April 19, 2023. This date is significant as it represents the earliest possible date for your divorce to be finalized, barring any complications.

Step 3: Add One Day

To get the exact finalization date of your divorce, you simply add one day to the six-month mark. Continuing with our example, if April 19, 2023, is the six-month mark, then your divorce will officially be finalized on April 20, 2023.

Understanding the Implications

Knowing the finalization date of your divorce can have various implications on your life moving forward. Here are some important aspects to consider:

Legal and Financial Considerations

Once your divorce is finalized, you will be legally recognized as single, which can impact your financial situation, including issues related to spousal support, division of assets, and future tax filings. Understanding this timeline allows you to prepare for these changes. You can begin planning your finances and living arrangements with a clearer perspective.

Emotional Preparedness

The emotional journey of divorce is often complex and fraught with challenges. Knowing when your divorce will be finalized can help you mentally prepare for this new chapter in your life. It can provide a sense of closure and enable you to start moving forward, focusing on healing and rebuilding.

Co-Parenting Arrangements

If children are involved, knowing the finalization date can assist in establishing co-parenting arrangements. It allows both parents to understand their new roles and responsibilities moving forward. Open communication during this period is essential for the well-being of your children.

Conclusion

Determining the exact date your divorce will be finalized doesn’t have to be a complicated process. By identifying the date your spouse was served, calculating six months from that date, and adding one day, you can find clarity in the timeline of your divorce. This knowledge can empower you to make informed decisions and better prepare for your future.

Remember, while the legal aspects can be straightforward, the emotional journey can be more challenging. Allow yourself the space to process your feelings and seek support from professionals or support groups if needed. You are not alone in this journey, and there are resources available to help you navigate this significant life transition.

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Understanding the Amicable Divorce Process in California | California Divorce

 

Understanding the Amicable Divorce Process in California

Divorce can be a challenging process, but it doesn’t always have to be contentious. For many couples, an amicable divorce is a viable option, allowing both parties to work together toward a resolution. In this blog, we’ll explore the ins and outs of amicable divorces in California, including whether you need to file a response when both parties agree on the terms.

What is an Amicable Divorce?

An amicable divorce occurs when both spouses agree on the terms of their separation, including asset division, child custody, and support arrangements. This type of divorce contrasts with contested divorces, where disagreements can lead to lengthy court battles. In an amicable situation, both parties communicate effectively, often resulting in a smoother, quicker process.

Filing a Response: Do You Need To?

One common question that arises during the divorce process is whether you need to file a response if the divorce is amicable. The short answer is: it depends. While the general advice is that spouses should file a response to a divorce petition, there are exceptions when both parties are in agreement.

Typically, when you are served with divorce papers, you have 30 days to file a response. If you fail to respond, the court can make decisions without your input, which can lead to unfavorable outcomes. However, if both spouses are working together amicably, filing a response may not be necessary.

The Hybrid Process

In an amicable divorce, couples can utilize what is known as a “hybrid” process or a “default with agreement.” This approach allows couples to bypass the need for one party to file a formal response while still completing the necessary legal steps to finalize the divorce. This method is entirely permissible under California law and is often overlooked because courts typically prefer to collect two filing fees.

Benefits of Not Filing a Response

One of the primary benefits of not filing a response in an amicable divorce is the cost savings. In California, the filing fee is currently $435. By opting for a hybrid approach, couples can save this fee, making the divorce process more affordable.

Additionally, couples can still complete all required financial paperwork and enter into a written agreement without one party filing a response. This can streamline the process and reduce the emotional toll that often accompanies divorce proceedings.

Steps to Complete an Amicable Divorce

While each divorce is unique, here are some general steps that couples can follow to ensure a smooth and amicable divorce process:

  1. Communicate Openly: The foundation of an amicable divorce is open communication. Both parties should discuss their expectations and concerns honestly.
  2. Agree on Terms: Couples should mutually agree on key issues such as asset division, child custody, and support arrangements.
  3. Prepare Necessary Paperwork: Gather all required documents and financial information. This includes income statements, tax returns, and any other relevant financial data.
  4. Draft a Written Agreement: Create a written agreement that outlines the terms of the divorce. This document should be comprehensive and cover every aspect of the agreement.
  5. File the Appropriate Forms: Depending on whether you choose to file a response or utilize the hybrid process, ensure you submit the correct paperwork to the court.
  6. Attend Court (if necessary): If required, attend any court hearings or mediation sessions to finalize the divorce.

Understanding the Default Divorce Process

In California, a “default divorce” occurs when one spouse does not respond to the divorce petition. In an amicable divorce, if one spouse fails to respond, the other can still proceed with the divorce as long as they have a written agreement in place. This means that even if one spouse does not file a response, the court can still finalize the divorce based on the agreed terms.

Consequences of Not Responding

If a spouse chooses not to respond to a divorce petition, they risk losing the opportunity to negotiate terms. The court will grant the petitioner what they requested in the petition, but only regarding what was outlined. For instance, if specific assets are not mentioned in the initial petition, the non-responding spouse cannot later claim those assets in the default judgment.

Finalizing Your Amicable Divorce

Once you have completed all necessary paperwork and reached an agreement, the final step is to submit your divorce judgment to the court. In California, there is a mandatory waiting period of at least six months from the date of filing before a divorce can be finalized. This waiting period allows both parties to reconsider their decision and ensures that all aspects of the divorce are thoroughly addressed.

Working with Professionals

Even in an amicable divorce, it’s often wise to consult with a divorce attorney or mediator. They can help ensure that all legal requirements are met and that the agreement is fair and equitable for both parties. Having a professional guide you through the process can alleviate stress and help avoid potential pitfalls.

Conclusion

An amicable divorce is a practical and often less stressful option for couples who can communicate effectively and agree on the terms of their separation. Understanding whether to file a response can save time and money, especially when both parties are aligned in their goals. If you have questions or need assistance navigating the divorce process, don’t hesitate to reach out for professional help.

For more information or to schedule a consultation, feel free to contact us at Divorce661. We are here to guide you through every step of the process and ensure that your needs are met.

 

Finalizing Your Divorce 100% Online: The Benefits of a Paperless Divorce | Los Angeles Divorce

 

Finalizing Your Divorce 100% Online: The Benefits of a Paperless Divorce

Divorce can be one of the most stressful experiences in life, but what if there was a way to make it easier and more efficient? Enter the concept of a paperless divorce. With the advancements in technology, finalizing your divorce online is not only possible but can also be incredibly beneficial. In this blog, we’ll explore how a paperless divorce works, the advantages it offers, and how Divorce661 can help you navigate this process smoothly.

No Courthouse Visits

One of the most significant benefits of a paperless divorce is that you never have to set foot in a courthouse. With electronic filing, commonly referred to as e-filing, all your divorce paperwork can be submitted remotely. This means no more waiting in long lines at the clerk’s office or dealing with the frustration of incorrect forms.

For example, a client recently reached out to us after spending hours at the courthouse only to be told that their forms were filled out incorrectly. By taking over their case and filing everything electronically, we saved them from having to make another trip, allowing their divorce to proceed without the hassle.

Faster Processing and Approvals

Another advantage of a paperless divorce is the speed at which documents are processed. When you submit documents digitally, they are often prioritized by the courts, leading to faster reviews and approvals compared to traditional paper filings. This means that your divorce can be finalized much quicker than you might expect.

A paperless approach reduces the time spent waiting for approvals, allowing you to move forward with your life sooner rather than later. The efficiency of e-filing can significantly decrease the overall timeline of your divorce.

No Lost or Missing Paperwork

One of the most common issues people face when managing their own divorce is losing important documents or submitting incomplete forms. With a paperless system, all forms are stored digitally, ensuring that everything is filed correctly and on time.

Take, for instance, a couple we assisted who attempted to file on their own. Their case was delayed for months simply because the court misplaced one of their required forms. When they came to us, we refiled everything electronically, ensuring that nothing went missing, and their divorce was finalized without further delays.

Convenience from Anywhere

Imagine handling your divorce entirely from the comfort of your home. A paperless divorce allows you to do just that. There’s no need to print, sign, and mail physical documents; everything is completed electronically. This convenience is particularly beneficial for out-of-state or military spouses who need to file in California but may not reside there.

For example, we recently helped a client who had moved to another state but needed to finalize their divorce in California. By managing the entire process digitally, they completed their divorce without the need to travel back to California, saving both time and money.

How Divorce661 Makes Paperless Divorce Easy

At Divorce661, we specialize in making the paperless divorce process as seamless as possible. We handle everything remotely, so there’s no need for court appearances or office visits. Our system is designed to ensure that you can finalize your divorce quickly and easily without the typical stress associated with traditional divorce processes.

If you’re looking for the fastest, easiest, and most stress-free way to finalize your divorce, look no further. Our team is here to guide you through every step of the process, ensuring that all your paperwork is completed accurately and filed on time.

Why Choose Divorce661?

Choosing the right service for your divorce is crucial. At Divorce661, we pride ourselves on being the number one choice for a paperless divorce. Our experience and dedication to helping our clients navigate the divorce process set us apart from the rest.

  • Expert Guidance: Our team has extensive knowledge of the divorce process and can provide you with the guidance you need to make informed decisions.
  • Stress-Free Experience: We aim to minimize stress by handling all the paperwork and filings for you.
  • Quick Turnaround: Our efficient e-filing system ensures that your documents are processed quickly, allowing you to finalize your divorce in a timely manner.
  • Client-Focused Approach: We prioritize our clients’ needs and work diligently to ensure a smooth process from start to finish.

Conclusion

A paperless divorce offers numerous benefits that can significantly improve your experience during a challenging time. From eliminating courthouse visits to ensuring faster processing and convenient handling of paperwork, this modern approach to divorce is designed with your needs in mind.

If you’re ready to take the first step toward a stress-free divorce, contact Divorce661 today. Our team is here to help you finalize your divorce 100% online, allowing you to move forward with your life without the hassle.

Don’t let the traditional divorce process overwhelm you. Embrace the ease and efficiency of a paperless divorce with Divorce661.

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Will the Court Accept Your Divorce Agreement? Don’t Make This Mistake! | Los Angeles Divorce

 

Will the Court Accept Your Divorce Agreement? Don’t Make This Mistake!

Understanding the Court’s Role in Divorce Agreements

When couples decide to end their marriage, one of the first questions that arise is whether the court will accept their divorce agreement. Many people believe that if both spouses agree on the terms, it should be a straightforward process. However, there are essential factors that can influence the court’s decision. In this blog, we’ll explore these factors and provide insights on how to ensure your divorce agreement is court-approved.

The Importance of Mutual Agreement

One of the most significant aspects of a divorce agreement is that both parties must agree to the terms. If both spouses are on the same page, the court generally tends to approve the agreement. This was evident in a recent consultation I had with clients who had been hesitant to move forward with their divorce due to concerns about their agreement’s acceptance by the court.

In their case, one spouse wanted to retain 100% of the home, while the other would keep their pension, which were roughly equivalent in value. They were worried that this arrangement wouldn’t be acceptable to the court. However, I assured them that as long as both parties agreed, the court would likely approve it. This highlights the importance of clear communication and mutual consent in divorce settlements.

Ensuring Fair and Legal Terms

While mutual agreement is crucial, the terms of the agreement must also be fair and legal. Courts in California have guidelines to ensure that divorce agreements do not violate state laws. This means that agreements should not be unconscionable or heavily favor one party over the other.

For instance, if one spouse is receiving significantly more than their fair share of the marital assets, the court may question the fairness of the agreement. It’s vital to assess the value of assets and liabilities accurately and ensure that the distribution reflects a fair outcome.

Child Support and Custody Considerations

When children are involved, the stakes become even higher. Courts closely scrutinize agreements related to child support and custody to ensure they serve the best interests of the children. The law mandates that child support payments must be adequate to meet the children’s needs, and custody arrangements should promote their well-being.

If the court finds that the proposed child support amount is insufficient or that the custody arrangement may not be in the children’s best interests, it can reject the agreement. Parents must prioritize their children’s needs and work collaboratively to create a plan that reflects this commitment.

The Importance of Proper Paperwork

Even if you have an amicable agreement and fair terms, the court may still reject your divorce agreement if the paperwork is not completed correctly. Proper documentation is essential for the court’s review process. This includes ensuring that all necessary forms are filled out accurately and that any required disclosures are provided.

Many couples underestimate the importance of paperwork, but incomplete or incorrect forms can lead to significant delays in the divorce process. It’s advisable to consult with a legal professional to ensure that all documents are in order before submission.

Common Mistakes to Avoid

Here are some common mistakes that can lead to the rejection of a divorce agreement:

  • Inadequate Financial Disclosure: Failing to disclose all assets and liabilities can result in the court rejecting your agreement.
  • Unfair Terms: Agreements that heavily favor one party may not be accepted.
  • Incomplete Paperwork: Submitting forms that are missing information can delay the process.
  • Lack of Legal Representation: Not having an attorney review the agreement can lead to oversights.

What to Do If Your Agreement Is Rejected

If your divorce agreement is rejected by the court, it can be frustrating. However, it’s essential to understand that rejection is not the end of the road. You have the opportunity to amend the agreement and resubmit it. Working with an experienced attorney can help you identify the issues that led to the rejection and make the necessary adjustments.

In many cases, couples can resolve the concerns raised by the court and ultimately reach an agreement that meets legal standards. This is why having professional guidance throughout the process is invaluable.

Conclusion: Navigating Your Divorce Agreement

In summary, while the court generally approves divorce agreements that both parties agree upon, there are critical factors to consider. Fairness, legality, and proper documentation are all essential components that can influence the court’s decision. By understanding these elements and avoiding common pitfalls, you can increase the likelihood that your divorce agreement will be accepted.

If you’re considering a divorce and want to ensure that your agreement meets court requirements, don’t hesitate to reach out for help. Consulting with professionals who specialize in family law can provide you with the support and guidance necessary to navigate this challenging process.

At Divorce661, we specialize in helping couples submit court-approved divorce agreements, ensuring your case gets finalized without delays. Contact us today for assistance!

Is Joint Custody BEST For Children : California Divorce

Divorce can be an emotionally challenging process, especially when children are involved. However, there is a growing understanding of the benefits of joint 50/50 custody arrangements for children.

This is a discussion with Leslie Holt who is a Co-Parenting coach and we explore her insights highlighting the importance of joint custody and the need for more research in this area.

Divorce Coaching: Focusing on the End Goal

Divorce coaching is a valuable support system that helps individuals navigate the complexities of divorce. Unlike traditional therapy, divorce coaching looks beyond the past and focuses on who one wants to become after the divorce.

It encourages individuals to envision their desired relationship with their ex-spouse and the type of co-parent they aspire to be. By working towards these goals, divorce coaching provides a guiding light during the challenging divorce process.

The Power of Joint 50/50 Custody

One of the key insights shared by Lesie is the significance of joint 50/50 custody arrangements. Unlike the traditional every-other-weekend visitation model, joint custody allows both parents to actively participate in their children’s lives. It promotes shared responsibilities, enabling a balanced approach to parenting.

Research suggests that joint custody can have a positive impact on children’s well-being, providing them with a sense of stability, love, and support from both parents.

The Need for More Research

Despite the potential benefits, there is a surprising lack of research on 50/50 custody arrangements. Leslie’s personal journey, having experienced the benefits of joint custody firsthand, has fueled her passion for understanding its impact.

Through her doctoral dissertation, she aims to collect data from adults who grew up in 50/50 custody arrangements.

By exploring their perspectives, she hopes to shed light on the long-term effects and the overall success of such arrangements.In addition to her research, the coach has authored a book that challenges the societal stereotypes surrounding single mothers. Titled “Not Mary, Not Roe,” the book addresses the experiences of those who don’t fit the extremes of the Virgin Mary or Jane Roe archetypes. It encourages individuals to find their place in the world, embracing their unique journeys and defying societal expectations.

Unlocking happiness for children during and after divorce is a vital goal for parents. The power of joint 50/50 custody arrangements cannot be underestimated, as they allow both parents to play active roles in their children’s lives.

However, more research is needed to fully understand the long-term effects of such arrangements. The work of divorce and co-parenting coaches, like the one discussed in this blog post, is essential in supporting families and promoting healthier co-parenting dynamics.

By striving for positive outcomes and challenging societal norms, we can create a brighter future for children of divorce.

5 Tips To Ensure You Have An Amicable California Divorce

5 Tips To Ensure You Have An Amicable California Divorce

It is possible to divorce amicably and without a court battle. An uncontested divorce in California is not only less expensive but also much faster than a contested divorce. It can also be less stressful for both parties involved, as it avoids the need for long court hearings and trial dates.

Divorce can be a stressful and overwhelming experience. It is important to understand your rights and obligations under California divorce law before filing for divorce, so that both parties are aware of the process ahead of time.

Fortunately, there are ways to make the divorce process amicable and uncontested in California. In this blog post, we will discuss five tips on how to have an amicable divorce in California, including discussing divorce in advance, understanding legal rights and obligations under divorce law, agreeing on property division matters, settling custody issues appropriately, and addressing spousal or child support payments. By following these tips you can ensure that your divorce goes as smoothly as possible.

Watch The Video Below…

Tip 1: Discuss divorce in advance

Make sure to have a lot of good communication before filing for divorce, so that both parties are aware that divorce is imminent and can begin preparing for it. If you want an amicable divorce, avoid making it a surprise at all costs.

2: Understand your rights and obligations under California divorce law

Before you file anything with the court, make sure you understand the divorce laws so you can make informed decisions. This does not mean that you are going to court, but having an understanding of how the process works will allow you to reach a fair agreement.

Tip 3: Discuss the issues that need to be addressed

Before filing for divorce, make sure you discuss matters such as property division, custody and spousal/child support. These conversations should take place in a respectful manner, so that everyone is aware of what needs to happen and can come up with agreeable solutions.

Tip 4: Discuss your finances and look at your assets and debts

Attempt to figure out how they should best be divided fairly between you. This is a key part of divorce, as it’s important that both parties are financially secure after divorce proceedings have been finalized as best as possible.

Tip 5: If you have an amicable divorce then a divorce attorney is not required

You can save thousands of dollars in attorney fees by using a less costly option such as a legal document assistant that specializes in the divorce process. A legal document assistant can help with paperwork and ensuring all divorce-related documents are filled out correctly, file them with the court and ensure a smooth process.

Divorce is never easy, but it doesn’t have to be a drawn out and contentious process. If you and your spouse are on the same page about divorce proceedings, an amicable divorce could be the best option for both of you.

An uncontested divorce in California can save time, money, and stress by avoiding long court hearings and trial dates.

Here at Divorce661.com, we specialize in amicable divorce cases anywhere in California and would love to assist you with your divorce. Please use the link above to schedule a free consultation with us today to see how we can help. We look forward to hearing from you!

6 Month Cooling Off Period | Santa Clarita Divorce

6 Month Cooling Off Period | Santa Clarita Divorce

The question we get a lot at Divorce661 is regarding the 6 month cooling off period when it comes to divorce in California.

The question specifically is “do we have to wait the 6 months if we have already been separated for a period of time?”

It makes sense to me also that if you have been separated, say for 6 months or longer the chance of you reconciling with your spouse are probably dwindling.

Why The 6 Month Cooling Off Period Exists

That is the whole point behind the 6 month cooling off period in California. They want to provide an opportunity for the spouses to get back together before the divorce is finalized.

So why make couples wait if they’ve already been apart for as long as the court would require them had they still been living together.

Some of our clients have been separated for years, some as long as 20 years before filing for divorce.

This happens for a variety of reasons…

But to answer the question, Yes – you still have to wait the 6 months even if you have been separated.

The length of separation has no bearing on the final divorce date.

What starts the 6 months is the filing of the divorce and then the actual date that paperwork is SERVED.

How To Finalize Your Divorce Faster

So if you are in a hurry to have your divorce finalized, the best thing you can do is have the divorce paperwork served shortly after you have filed it.

What I tell our clients who find themselves in this position is that it has already been XXX number of years since they’ve been separated, what is another 6 months going to matter.

It really doesn’t, but I get it – once you decide it is time to file for divorce, you want it over and done with as quickly as possible.

what happens after FL-165 filed california divorce

What Happens After FL-165 Is Filed? | Divorce661.com

What Happens After FL-165 Is Filed? | Divorce661.com

You filed your request to enter default form FL-165, but what happens after the FL-165 is filed?

The Request To Enter Default form FL-165 is a form that is signed by the petitioner when you are going through either a true default or default with written agreement type California divorce case.

The word default simply means that no response was filed and therefore that party, the respondent has defaulted by not appearing in the case.

This is not a bad thing if this was the intention of the parties.

For instance, with our clients, we purposely and strategically file our divorce judgements as a default with written agreement.

We do this to save our clients money.  We work with both parties on their amicable divorce.

What a lot of people don’t know is that by filing the response form it triggers another court filing fee.

What Happens After FL-165 Is Filed?

But the real purpose for this article was to explain what happens after the FL-165 is filed.

This depends on a few things.

IF YOU HAVE AN AMICABLE DIVORCE

If you have an amicable California divorce and intentionally filed the request to enter default then the filing of the FL-165 simply means that the court is beginning to process your judgment.

This assumes that you filed your request to enter default FL-165 along with your judgment package as we recommend.

If you filed your request to enter default FL-165 as a separate document then once the default is entered you can now submit your judgment.

But there really is no reason to break them up into separate filings.

The type of case described above is called a Default with written agreement.

IF YOUR DIVORCE IS NOT AMICABLE

But what if your case is not amicable?

If your case is not amicable and you are contesting the terms of the divorce petition you’d normally want to file your response within the allotted time.

This prevents the request to enter default from being filed in the first place.

Some respondents for one reason or another don’t get their response filed in time and the request to enter default FL-165 ends up getting filed.

This has the result of blocking you from filing a Response.

There is a cure for this. You can file a motion to set aside the request to enter default and in my experience the court will generally approve this request.

Then you can file your Response.

HOW WE PROCESS OUR AMICABLE DIVORCE CLIENTS CASES

As I mentioned above we purposely process our clients cases as a default with written agreement. We do this to save our clients money.

So in the case of our clients, what happens after the FL-165 is filed?

For our clients it is good news.  It is just part of the default with written agreement process we put you through and means the court is actively processing your judgment.

LEGAL DESCRIPTION OF HOME REQUIRED ON DIVORCE JUDGMENT

Legal Description Of Property Required On Divorce Judgment | Divorce661.com

Legal Description Of Property Required On Divorce Judgment

Tim Blankenship here with Divorce661.com and what we’re talking about in this video is legal descriptions for real property.

So were talking about your home, condo, any real property asset that you own.

So when going through a divorce in California, when you submit your judgment to the court and you indicate, for instance, you’re keeping 100% of real property at 123 Main Street. Or,  house will be divided equally or house will be sold and proceeds divided equally.

If you list any type of real property the legal description of property is required on the divorce judgment.

So if it’s your home, obviously you can just get a copy of your deed, make a copy of that, and you will attach that behind the property order as a court will require that to be there to list the legal description

If you turn it in without the legal description, your judgment will be rejected.

Los Angeles County Family Centered Case Resolution Hearings

Los Angeles County Family Centered Case Resolution Hearings

Tim Blankenship here with Divorce661.com and what we’re answering in this video is what is Los Angeles County’s Family Centered case resolution hearings that you may see on your summary, on your case summary related to your divorce and this is only for Los Angeles County.

So what happened was people were filing for divorce thinking their divorce cases were finished and never had any communication from the court whatsoever in the past.

And then around 2013 they implemented this family-centered case resolution process. And it’s basically the court setting a hearing and they need to set a hearing at least once every hundred and eighty days in this is just to bring the case before the court to the court, can see what’s going on and then make any recommended solutions to moving your case forward either by sending notices out to come in and court or provide you updates of what needs to happen in order to finish your divorce so they don’t have so many cases not being finished by parties going through divorce on their own.